Last night, I bought large chips. Chips are fries. Except that they are huge and never end. All for £1.80. And while you eat them, you can think. Which is what I did. Not very hard or very deep but I, sort of, meandered. And came to the conclusion that I should finish this post. Which I have been writing in bits and pieces for some time.
Today I intend to answer a question we all ask ourselves, but refuse to consider beyond a point, afraid of what the answer might be. This is also a question, to which my answer will make people who write balanced, informed answers toss a little in their sleep tonight. What could such a question be? For Spay, it could be – “Will I ever get to tap that a**?” For me, it would ordinarily be – “Will I ever get to tap any a**?” However, let us not be childish.
Even by the best accounts of my character, I am the perverted one. But perversion has its advantages, I think. But more about this perversion before I move on. I have always been a sucker for beautiful people. Not pretty gadgets, houses or even books or CDs that were prettily packaged. Just very beautiful men and women. Women on the telly and in magazines and in real life used to leave me anxious and in a tizzy. Not for me your noble and brave. Bring me your pretty ones. It used to happen a lot when I lived in a village and was more of a gawpy villager that I essentially am.
So. When are we clever? Millennium provides impetus to many thoughts that I have over the days and weeks, and today he has sort of stolen my stöllen if you see what I mean. He said that if you don’t ask questions, you can’t be interested in philosophy. I ask questions at an entirely different level. I ask, what have I got to do to be clever. When are you clever. Not intelligent, because that brings to mind some sort of absolute idea to mind. (I thought I’d write a semi-informed article on the nature of intelligence and in true style I downloaded plenty of books and papers to read for this post. Then I was put in place by mindmansion (<–hyuk))
Anyway, I want to know how you can be clever, or be perceived to be clever, because seriously. When do you sit down and stock of another person? You think a person is clever because of some legerdemain that has always eluded me. Is it the way we write? Stipe writes prose that is out there. Truly orginal stuff, un-afraid, and disturbingly catchy. Millennium writes slightly introspective, immaculately researched, yet warm and funny prose. Sometimes he has doubts but he has faith and he has tenacity you (I) would not give him credit for. GPJ writes to-the-point, sensationally clear paragraphs. He will not write one more word than is absolutely necessary. Salil has written something after ages and ages. Nothing but the best for company then. I write with a touch of buffoonery, a little neurotic and a little ‘I-have-tied-myself-into-knots-please-release-me’ prose. Not clever on that count then?
I wonder why I try so hard. It is not so hard to get used to the idea. I have already gotten used to the idea that I will not be many things. A ’stud’, whatever those things might be is another. There is a Ray film (where there is smoke… a bengali cannot be far behind), called ‘Jalsaghar‘
(The Music Room). The protagonist here is a Zamindar of Roybari (Roy estate) in decline, called Biswanbhar Roy. There is another family, the Gangulis, who live across the river, who over a period of time accumulate wealth by leasing the river which belongs to the Roys and selling the sand. Anyway, after Roy has lost his wife and son (and most of his money) he closes his house for 4 years (drinking sherbet mostly). Anyway, the denouement of the film is this. Mahim Ganguli comes to Roy’s house to invite him to his new house. He has this conversation with the Nayeb (the caretaker)
“When your old elephant came to my house to deliver the token, everyone saluted you and cheered. When I drove in my new motor car you know what they did? They threw stones and ruined the mudguard. You know why? Because I am a self made-man. No pedigree. Ha ha ha.”
Roy quietly declines, but this breaks his funk as he hears the music in the distance. He calls for the Jalsaghar to be opened again, and calls Krishnabai for another performance. Mahim Ganguli is invited. The last 300 rupees are spent. The music hall glimmers. Krishnabai dances. As she dances Ganguli notices she dances longer and harder for Roy. When the dance is over he extends his hand to reward the dancer. A cane appears and stops Ganguli’s hand. “The first right to reward the artist belongs to the owner of the house”. And Krishnabai gracefully takes the proferred purse from Roy.
Later that evening. Roy is punch drunk. IN the Music Hall. His old faithful is around. And he laughs hysterically.
“Couldn’t do it. That usurer’s son. He failed. He failed. He tries to reach the stars… In vain, in vain.”
“Do you know why he failed?”
“Blood.”
“Blood in my veins.”
“Do you know which blood flows in my veins?”
“Which one master?”
“You want to see? You really want to see? Come here, come. Look at my father. Rameswar. My grandfather Buwaneswar. My great-grandfather. Tarakesvar. My great-great-grandfather Ravanesvar. Cheers! Cheers, noble ancestors! And… to my own nobleness. To myself.”
He dies trying to ride his horse when drunk.
I ate a contemplative chip. I watched another film. Isabelle Huppert and Gerard Depardieu. Isabelle is in Paris and she
needs to be satisfied. Many times a day and completely. She keeps Gerard. Just two things here (phew).
“Better a poor guy who fucks me well than a rich loser.”
“What do you talk about? Not about books. ” “I read, but I don’t need to talk about it.”
Not going to get by asking then, are you? I need to go get some more chips.
48 Comments
Comments RSS TrackBack Identifier URI
Leave a comment
I found your site on technorati and read a few of your other posts. Keep up the good work. I just added your RSS feed to my Google News Reader. Looking forward to reading more from you.
Eric Hundin
Strange and interesting. We all try hard to be something. Not trying is far worse, at least at this age.
But by clever do you mean intuitive? I sometimes think I’m completely ignorant of intuition.
Is Millennium me? Tenacity? Immaculate research??
I can totally relate to the question:“Will I ever get to tap any a**?”
Some of us are meant for greater things I guess. Or just chips. Chips are good.
I find myself unable to watch movies alone any more, except in a theatre. My attention span has been shot to pieces.
@Hundin: Hope you enjoy what you read here. There are two other contributors to this blog (one of whom, I am sure, will write any day now and will be well worth the wait).
@Millennium: You are Millennium. Clever means, clever. Like lightening sharp. Convince you that black is white, talk you out of home and hearth, crush your well-thought argument to dust, clever. Intuition has nothing to do with it, I would say. Instinct and violence more like. But if I knew…
My attention span has had to adjust because I spend long hours of the day on my own with nothing to do but movies which come in the post, or books you can buy (shockingly cheap) in the second-hand bookstores. Also, I go to amazon and randomly order the cheapest CDs available (£0.09 plus post). Probability says that I am going to find my (future) favourite album of all time in the mail.
Don’t know about the tenacity and the immaculate research. Maybe doggedness is a better word. Cruder, but better. “I get knocked down, but I get up again.” Danny boy and whatnot.
And c’m'on, you have never written a word without making sure that it was fact. The non-opinion part. Compare and contrast Salil, who bandies half-remembered facts recklessly.
Haha, the cat bit may be true. I see no reason to not to a fact-check in the era of google. Laziness is the only excuse.
Clever is okay for a little while. It’s just hot air and theatrics for the most part. Do you have a clear idea of who you’d like to con or convince? Or of the goals? I think once those are clarified then the resources will manifest themselves. But winning armchair arguments is not much of a victory. Much better to be malleable and open to changing one’s opinion. There’s time to be fixed in one’s head when one gets old and crotchety.
By “cat” bit I meant “fact”. Oops.
See, you’ve got it right. Winning arm-chair arguments. I have never won arm-chair argument in my life. No matter how many winning arguments (to my mind) I can supply or how many facts. Somehow the spectre of bullshit haunts me. Somehow people just don’t believe me. I will write an entire post on duplicity. Wherever I go, people find my motives suspect.
Again, a lot of people can get by on the theatrics and the hot-air for a really long time. Not that I want anything of the sort. Just a little bit of credibility. No cons. Only neo-cons (he he).
Oh, and I am one of the most open people I know. I am the first person to agree when someone convinces me that I am wrong. I detest argument for its won sake and have very few fundamental beliefs and opinions. Except that all Hindi movies are shit.
I suppose I do not have a belly for argument (although it will fit nigh well all else).
By “won” bit I meant “own” or own with Mall accent. Oops.
I’ve never been one to worry about winnig arm chair arguments. I do subscribe to what Millenium says -it is much better to be malleable than to be right all the time. When it comes to any kind of a discussion of anything, I believe that the truth is the only thing that matters. Hiding behind semantics or unverifiable facts don’t serve that purpose. (which is what bothered me about most discussions in college) .. Cleverness lies in wit I think. Everything else (fact and logic) is achievable in due course.
When it comes to opinion however, I have none most of the time. Ok is a word I use too often. Anything that deals with some kind of aesthetics just leaves me asking what is the majority opinion and stating it.. no right or wrong just the majority.The pitfalls of being a people pleaser.
I think that all the blogs we read are written by really clever people. Chasing the idea of being clever may make it seem more elusive, I guess its the same with being erudite. Probably why such people end up being depressed or sick of the world. And thankar I think you’re quite clever.
George, you might just have made my day even though not two lines ago you say that you are a people pleaser. Nonetheless, thank you.
Hehe. Personally I think the really enjoyable armchair discussions all tend to boil down to semantic/linguistic ambiguities. (Consciousness, Good and Evil, Politics etc.) Too many disagreements on definition can be exasperating though.
Science is science, and has its flaws. There’s no formal methodology to do science, so it’s not really a self-propelling process. Logic can generally be bent to serve whatever goal you want to achieve. Calculus was being used for centuries before its logical foundations had been “established.”
Despite what I say about being malleable, I can get pretty agitated in a discussion. We have to consciously tell ourselves that abstract ideas are not like experimental facts, and that we often conflate the two, treating some reasoned arguments as “self-evident”. In my opinion very little is self-evident.
Assholes. Eveyone is taking a shot a me. Et tu, George?
Its nice to hear insightful comments about my personality from people who I haven’t seen for over two years now.
I do not like arm-cahir arguments either. I agree with George on what he says about college discussions.
A lot of what I have learnt comes from coversations with myself.
” Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who could not hear the music.”
Don’t expect people to only talk about you when they have the right to talk about you, Salil. You have no control over other people’s opinions.
For the record, the only truths that fit George’s idea of purposeful dialogue are scientific facts. Nothing from the humanities and pseudo-sciences can ever generate a control experiment, and therefore the notion of truth becomes very loose. If you look at any basic text on logic, there are always ambiguities, and they tend to stem from definitions and semantics.
Even within science, the interpretation of “facts” comes under severe dispute, going on for decades after the experiments/proofs are published. The “talk” is essential to the establishment of truth.
Saliya, you twit. The bandy-ing around of half-remembered facts can be dizzyingly exhilarating. Could make you look like a damn fool (cue Barry White record), but it can also give you a sense of freedom. Which would you rather have?
Anyway, in penance, I will write “Main Salil ko zaleel nahin karoonga” (I will not humiliate Salil) on a blackboard 100 times. I will even paint myself yellow if you like.
And please do not crib on your blog about people not picking you up from Delhi airport. Because people were only late by 30 minutes.
@Millennium: Have you read much on science studies? Ala Bruno Latour? It will be interesting for you to do a catch-all post. A sort of Methodology of Science for Dummies.
On another point, as a person who deals frequently with data not generated by control experiments, I am very very impressed by how much statisticians and economists have achieved by way of getting round it by devising statistical models which mimic thought experiments rigorously. That having been said, they still grapple with the most fundamental question of all. Causality. But then so do physicists who have the luxury of control experiments.
To the best of my knowledge I have never claimed that something is self-evident. Why do when you can kill a couple of hours arguing about it with people you really want to needle?
Hehehe. Very true about the needling. But it can backfire badly.
An IIT prof (a bit of a Marxist!) conducted a great little discussion group on the philosophy and history of science. So I know a bit about Thomas Kuhn and Karl Popper. I’ve also done some wiki reading. I can do a little post on some basic ideas from scientific method. I’m taking a course on statistical methods this semester. It’s as much an art as a science!
In fact, let that be my next post. Since I intend to be very artsy-fartsy after that, I might as well declare my allegiance to Science before getting blurry!
What I said may apply specially well to scientific discussion, but when you apply that level of clarity to discussions where there are ambiguities (and different interpretations) you can find the crux of the differences much easier.. I’ve heard too many discussions where people just keep repeating themselves.. it just isn’t efficient.. At the end, there may be no solution to discussions like that but you get to see another aspect of the problem which is something worthwhile..
@salil.. heard you went to delhi? how was it there? I remember the last time you were there.. good fun.. being driven around in thanko’s car.. hehe
Yeah getting to the crux of the matter is useful. However, I have encountered people who don’t enjoy debating definitions. Because very often this kind of approach involves asking whose definition/interpretation actually applies to the problem at hand. A good approach is to accept a person’s definition and explore his internal logic. But few people can actually do that.
All of you have been tagged to do a meme thingie. Of course, I can’t force you to do it.
Which meme?
Thank God I don’t know what tagging is.
Tirthankar, the blog post is not about you not picking me up from the airport at all.
Were any of you guys around when a bunch of us went for We the People? It was quite a sham. Never saw a talk show on TV again.
I also stayed away from IDG discussions. I once heard Suhel Seth at an IDG talk. Never mind. THe only talk I attended was Jakka’s witcher talk. Far from this opera from ever more. If I catch you coming back my way, I’m going to sell it to you.
I find there is no need for me to get into disussions about anything. I stil have so much to learn out of my own initiative, that I find it to tedious to gain insight through arguments.
All in all, I think discussion are HUGELY about one’s ego and the need to be right, a need very strongly present in T and Y2J, but not so in George. Or Navin, or Perakath. We’re just, you know, more relaxed.
Tirthankar can’t stand discssions where he is told that he in not right. He pulls his shorts up and starts muttering “Dancing in Cambodia, at large in Burma”.
I know you foo. I just thought reminding you of a certain good time would bring back some good memories of Delhi. Like recognizing N-th Degree. Do you even listen to that song anymore? M-O, M-O-R-….. And you never kept that piece of paper.
You have been ‘tagged’ as well foo. I just checked.
On another note, bahahahaha. Dancing in fucking Cambodia indeed. Fuck.
Salil said exactly what i think…I find there is no need for me to get into disussions about anything. I stil have so much to learn out of my own initiative, that I find it to tedious to gain insight through arguments… I completely agree… Maybe its just a confidence thing then that people get into it or there’s such a comfort level with whom you discuss stuff so that arguing is just as effective as say reading.
@ Salil: I was there for one of those We, The People trips – something about Nimulid. Are you talking about the same time? I’ve never seen a talk show again myself. But then again, I never really watched any before either.
(Although I did have a big Oprah/Donahue phase as a little kid. A lot of my conversations with my friends after that went along the lines of “And how did that make you *feel*?”)
(It’s a miracle I turned out straight.)
And the only IDG talk I remember attending was Suhel Seth as well. It was incredibly annoying. There was that girl who had that insane ‘commodification of women’ thing.
And um, me three
I don’t know how effective arguing can ever be, really. College changed my opinion – everybody arguing about something or the other, just to live up to an image. Some of the milestones for me were probably Udayan and Raj, Thunk and Jaks, etc… Inevitably, at *least* one of the participants would feel a need to shove an opinion down the other’s throat.
It just always seemed very pointless, and very tiring. Why bother?
You can learn a lot about people from discussion. I know I have. And on several occasions I have changed my mind based on someone’s cogent argument. You also learn how to speak effectively and communicate you ideas. Trying to get Madhu Mohan to understand what we were saying really refined our ability to talk.
There’s also a great thrill in entertaining people with storytelling and metaphor.
Of course, if you don’t like talking, then the skills are irrelevant. But I believe that very few occupations allow you to be silent and succeed. And in order to move up, you have to be able to gas. Whether it’s science, or arts, or the corporate world. No one is going to seek you out in you cubby-hole and discover that you’re a genius.
@All: I never went for IDG discussions because of a similar reason, the people who went seemed so cocksure (not meant derisorily) of themselves. Which as Yohan says is a desirable commodity. I used to go to all the PF discussions because they used to have less fanfare and they used to involve (dare I say it?) friendlier people; I can particularly remember Deepak Nair who for all his smarts was a very nice person. They used to happen at a friendlier time, and to me always seemed a more comfortable forum. I am not debating about forums, I am stating my preference.
(This reminds me of Spay, who for all his really strong opinions, does not voice them to any other than his closest friends)
And so I have now become, I try to make things comfortable for people around me because I like it.
In my first year I used to argue, now I don’t. A neat parallel. Although I still meet people from College who try to convince me that any moment I will get up and start debating the next words out of their mouths. Let us not be militant about our relaxedness. Selling ‘not selling’ yourself is not as bad as selling your unwanted opinions, but it is pretty bad. I know both ways. One makes you chilled out and happy, one doesn’t. Reminds me of a phrase – “met too many people like yourself”. If you meet enough people like yourself, then it is easy to convince yourself that you are right.
Although MIllennium’s point is well taken. For people who can do it well, articulate, be witty and persuasive, it must be a genuine pleasure, away from an egotistical victory to talk and make a point coherently and neatly. For everyone else, I recommend a book and peace.
I had no idea the IDG was so scary! We were all nice people! Really! And our talks were so much better that the PF’s. Hehe.
Some of those talks were monumental occasions for everyone in the room. The Sainath talk was spectacular.
Ego is not such a bad thing. Everyone has one, whether they like it or not.
@Millennium: Were you part of the IDG? I have a sinking feeling that you were. If so, then you must understand that I never joined any society in my first year in College. I was trained to be an IIT-ian and could not understand why everybody was not home solving differential equations. I had never heard of St. Stephen’s College and could not associate with the atmosphere or what people were striving for. I can remember feeling completely lost in my first year. Which is why I liked the PF. It had 5 (George, Udayan, Varun, Radhika, Ashmita) of my classmates and it was always a low(er)-key affair. The IDG clearly had the bigger names.
What a freak of chance, you posted while I was writing the last comment. As you see, I have echoed you on most points.
As I was thinking about this today, I came to the conclusion that I don’t actually dislike arguments, I really like them. I just dislike the unpleasantness that goes with them and the fact that you never know when someone decides to take offence. Especially because you ordinarily debate with friends.
Everyone has an ego.
Yeah the offense things happens at the end of a long discussion. The price we pay. But a friendship without a little disagreement is just politeness between acquaintances, really.
I hadn’t heard much about Stephen’s until a few months before I applied. I wrote the JEE, and had applied to BITS Pilani. Thank God I didn’t get into either place. IIT was depressing even for just 2 years. In Stephen’s I found so many people I could relate to. And I didn’t have to be apologetic about not knowing Hindi.
Thirty comments, where the fuck have I been? Need to add you to my reader pronto.
My 2 bits:
1. Do the tag fuckers, I’ve also tagged you. And posted thrice.
2. Salil, you made me laugh out loud for the first time in days with that Tirthankar pulling up his shorts line
thank you!
3. I also went for that We The People talk. I have a photo taken in the bus there with Navin, Salil, myself, Prashast, and Manas.
4. I also went for that Suhel Seth talk. Till date I remember him talking about the new Ambassador, which his firm was advertising. “It’s gonna be big,” he said, slapping his palm. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA….
@P: Almost surely we get more than we deserve. What can we say? Except be smug and full of ourselves.
@George: Will you oblige the kurta-clad, early-rising gentleman?
Yes Yes a post is on its way.. I always end up doing this stuff when I absolutely have no time for it. So tomorrow sounds like the perfect day.
O, its such a perfect day, I’m glad I spent it with you.
Such a perfect day.
@BakedBeans: Whaddyou know? It is a perfect day here as well. It is 6.30 in the morning.
@Yohan: Glasvegas played The Cambridge Corn Exchange this week.
http://www.varsity.co.uk/reviews/889/1/ The Job Centre thing might be a little harsh.
Haha. That Glasvegas review was interesting. And being harsh is cool. They may flop. But I think they’re quite catchy. Daddy’s Gone is fantastic. I guess they haven’t gotten their live skills in order yet.
Did you attend the concert?
@Salil: Lou Reed! Woo hoo!
Anyone here heard the band Suicide?
@Pratchett: I didn’t. However, Cambridge is essentially a village and the Barfly and the Corn Exchange are both stone’s throw from where I live (literally). I could hear Fairport Convention play as I walked by a few weeks ago.
But as I have said on Zonuts, never really went to concerts just for the heck of it. It would have to be something really important like Dream theater or Wishbone Ash to get me to go.
It will be much appreciated. Thematic even.
Lots of people I know like Glasvegas, but the fact that they are signed onto a major label sort of kills it for some Uber-cool people, a member of which clan the snobby writer of the review clearly is (notice derisory mention of Job Centre – clearly never seen one in his life). Say MH, you don’t feel up to making a mixtape and uploading it to rapidshare do you? 20 of the finest?
@Spay: You still got Get up and Face the Music 5 1/2?
@Salil: Take your pick -
So fine, so young
Tell me I’m the only one
Here come those Santa Anna winds again…
or
When Black Friday comes I’ll stand down by the door
And catch all the grey men as they dive from the fourteenth floor
When Black Friday comes I’ll collect everything I’m owed
And before my friends find out I’ll be on the road
When Black Friday falls you know it’s got to be
Don’t let it fall on me…
@ A.S.H.: Everytime you make a Steely Dan reference, dude, I question your sexuality.
Although that’s probably only because I still have the mental image of you explaining the band name to me with such gusto. Alone. In your room. *shudder*
Funny you should mention mixtapes. I was thinking of doing just that. Theme-based, because everything I listen to is “the finest” so picking 20 based just on that is too hard.
You should go for concerts of bands that formed in this century. And screw all this major label indie label nonsense. That’s something for white kids to worry about.
http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.wordpress.com/
@Legolas: You conflate my pre-emption of reviewer’s motives with my motives. I could not care less if a band was indie or not. I love heavy airplay plugged-in commercial singles. Also, I find it hard to deal with hype. I often find songs I love and then discover their massive fanbases <- this I can handle. However, the other way round is very difficult. Please do a mixtape. It will be much appreciated. I know you don’t like the genre, but I am sure you could find 20 favourite C&W songs? Please
@Silmaril: I love Steely Dan. They are dildos. How can you not love dildos? I also love Clem Snide. More William Burroughs.
Hey Babylon sister, shake it.
I think a mixtape of just stuff you listen to should be fine. We should all do it. I like almost all the music everyone here likes, it’ll also be a good way to find new music.
Do the D.A.N.C.E.
1 2 3 4 fight
Stick to the B.E.A.T.
Get ready to ignite
http://rapidshare.com/files/95840919/Frothy_Mixed_Ape.zip
Me first.
Last day of my job today. Thought I’d use the office internet for one final good deed.
I am off to meet Jakka (Hyderabad) and Tommy (Chennai) and finally to Abraham (Pondicherry).
See you in Pondicherry.
@Aragon: (Goes ape.shit.) Sweet!
Wish the Lawrencians all the best from me!
@Aragon: I am going to take all the credit for this amazingly super idea. This is why mixtapes kick all sorts of butt. Download the file and play it. And. Please, if you read this blog and think you have 20 songs that are just the best. Do it. Upload them.
I cannot believe you picked the perfect hip-hop song.
Thank you Aragon. Hope you have a nice trip dude.
“I got 99 problems but a bitch ain’t one”
My mixtape is at zonuts.
Fixed the link!
Ugh. Lawrencians.
That’s the last thing I can think about.
Tirthankar, Lord of the Rings! Oh God.
Balarog.